American Prairie Reserve - nothing new

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gila

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
643
Location
Socorro New Mexico
I attempted to resurrect an old thread but recent acquisitions by APR have prompted me to do a little research into what is going on. I believe that it is the right thing to do, to share this information so that people can make up their own minds and not be “hood winked” by those who stand to gain and profit from these “land grabs”. We had millions of acres here in New Mexico bought up by similar organizations like APR, maybe they are some of the same people. Quite a bit of that acquired land here is not open to the public for hunting or fishing. This land is for the most part, tied up in reserves, preserves, whatever label you want to put on it. Most of this land has been set aside for eco-tourism. Private parks for the wealthy and the upper echelon. This is an example:

Vermejo Park Ranch - Turner Enterprises


www.tedturner.com
www.tedturner.com
This huge buy out of private land has done little for public hunting opportunity in the form of public draw hunts here in New Mexico. The APR effort in Montana appears to be no different in my opinion, but I think people should have factual and accurate information to figure it all out for themselves. These are the words of the head honcho at APR, Sean Gerrity:

”The next phase is simply to keep going. We have numerous properties in the pipeline right now, so it's simply raise funds, buy properties, go on to the next one. Ever-increasing effort to get people out there to enjoy it. We have a campground where you can stay for $10, and we'll open more of those, and we're opening a high-end safari lodge like they have in Africa. We want to make it a world-class reserve like people have never seen in North America.”

I have been called a liar and all sorts of other names for putting the truth out there on another forum. They put words in my mouth and pushed that I said things that I never did. I live in the middle of the open range that has deeded acres. Grazing rights are leased. The only fences are around the ranch yards to keep the cattle out. Yup they have cattle drives and cowboys on horses rounding up the herds and separating them by brands. The last time I fished Fort Peck, which has been years ago now, it was the same way as it is here. Our meager local economy is based on cattle and grazing is shared, it is as simple as that. Fort Peck used to be no different.

www.theguardian.com

'I want to restart the golden age of conservation' – ex Valley entrepreneur

Yale Environment 360: Former Silicon Valley entrepreneur Sean Gerrity is trying to turn a swath of northeastern Montana into a prairie reserve teeming with herds of bison
www.theguardian.com
www.theguardian.com

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/travel/08journeys.html
 
OP
Gila

Gila

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
643
Location
Socorro New Mexico
Not really the objective...the objective is to get the truth about these organizations out to the hunting and fishing public. Mr Gerrity has stated that his goal is to have “high end safaris”. What that means is that he intends to cater to the wealthy. Now I was called a liar for that on the other forum. Yet there his words are in an interview with a creditable news source. They also said I was full of conspiracy theories when Gerrity’s vision of APR by his own words, is a prairie with wolves, bison, and cougar. The ones that were given their 30 pieces of silver from these organizations are the liars. They are the ones with the hidden agendas.

They said I lied because APR allows hunting. They put words in my mouth because I was referring to the Nature Conservancy lands. But at the time I made that statement, APR didn’t have any hunting on their properties. Now years later, they give out some tags. How much hunting is actually allowed there is still a mystery though. APR is doing this and that is a fact jack: “we're opening a high-end safari lodge like they have in Africa. We want to make it a world-class reserve like people have never seen in North America.”

Ted Turner and Jane Fonda have bought up millions of acres of prairie in various states. In New Mexico one of their primary objectives was to save endangered species. For instance on Vermejo ranch, if you go to that link I provided, you will see that their effort is to help save the black footed ferret. Thier solution was to increase the population of prairie dogs. Yea, they allow limited hunting on their properties. Twenty thousand for an elk hunt and $65,000 for a sheep hunt. And of course you get to stay in a lodge with 400 dollar a bottle champagne and russian caviar.

“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”
——Winston Churchill
 

displacedtexan

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Feb 12, 2022
Messages
741
You're whining about not being able to hunt private land for free. Were the ranchers who owned it before letting the public hunt for free?

You're whining that they will cater to the wealthy. Yeah, if you want money you have to get it from people who have it. I don't work for poor people either.

Campsites for $10? That's cheaper than lots of them on public lands.
 
OP
Gila

Gila

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
643
Location
Socorro New Mexico
I am not whining about anything. But the last few weeks has enlightened me a great on the subject and I intend to put forth the effort to oppose American Prairie. As you may know BLM granted grazing rights to a half dozen or so, of AP’s allotments for grazing bison only. There is also the issue that the federal government has given millions of dollars of farm subsidies to the ranches that AP acquired. And there is the issue of CRP. There is CRP land that was enrolled when AP bought those ranches. How many acres are in CRP I don’t know. But I do know that the counties where AP bought those ranches have been or are now, in emergency grazing and hay production because of drought conditions. That means millions and millions of our federal tax dollars went towards food production. And now the ability of that region to produce product, has been substantially reduced. I say that because over 90% of AP’s bison herds will not be on the dinner table.

Yesterday I went to the BLM and pulled their decision to let AP graze buffalo. I am going to go over the EIS and EIA. But what I found was that Defenders of Wildlife is on the mailing list for the decision. When you go to DOW’s website they have an extensive write up for their support of APs effort. Now I have to ask, why is one of the largest anti-hunting groups on the face of the planet supporting AP? Yes AP allows hunting and I have heard they are in block management as well. They are going to give away a buffalo hunt to a disabled veteran....how noble. From what I have been able to determine, a block management contract is for one year.



 

Hoodie

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
895
Location
Oregon Cascades
I'm pleasantly surprised by the general tone of the response here. If we're going to say hunting is conservation, we ought to be supportive of at least some outright preservation, a la national parks/preserves etc.

I'd certainly be a little sad if land presently open to hunter access was bought out and used as a preserve, but a bunch of private ranch owners consensually selling out and having rangeland for bison, elk/muley winter range etc? Sure thing I'll support that.

Can't live in a world where you can draw a bison tag every couple years unless we have enough habitat to have more bison.
 

wapitibob

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
4,430
Location
Bend Oregon
You're whining about not being able to hunt private land for free. Were the ranchers who owned it before letting the public hunt for free?

You're whining that they will cater to the wealthy. Yeah, if you want money you have to get it from people who have it. I don't work for poor people either.

Campsites for $10? That's cheaper than lots of them on public lands.

He posted the same stuff on Newberg’s site and came over here to try and find a more receptive audience.
 

BRTreedogs

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
5,821
Location
Central Oregon
Private buyers buying Private property from Private sellers? Umm ok.

Let us know when they start attempting to buy public land.

Do you own a house? If so I'm mad you don't let me sleep in your bed when I'm in your area.
I was just in New Mexico working for a few months and I didn't get a single invite to hunt your place for free.
 

Dos Perros

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
3,893
Location
Lenexa, KS
It's not surprising the knee jerk reactionists can't appreciate the nuance here.

APR is going to eventually kill a lifestyle in the Missouri River Breaks. It's essentially a piece by piece hostile take over.

Have any of you been up there? Hunted it? Befriended locals?

There are many local ranches that are enrolled in the BMA program and allow hunting. In addition to that, they allow access to public lands that would otherwise be landlocked or damned difficult to access. APR is taking donations, buying up land, and pricing out ranchers who have been on the land since the Bankhead-Jones era. They're going to boil the frog and eventually close off access and hunting. They don't currently allow elk hunting because "there aren't enough elk," yet any dude who has hunted the breaks will tell you there are a shit ton of elk. The state says the area is well over objective, FWIW.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a Sierra Club type organization will do something that doesn't benefit hunting? Which of us is taking crazy pills? :)
 

BRTreedogs

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
5,821
Location
Central Oregon
It's not surprising the knee jerk reactionists can't appreciate the nuance here.

APR is going to eventually kill a lifestyle in the Missouri River Breaks. It's essentially a piece by piece hostile take over.

Have any of you been up there? Hunted it? Befriended locals?

There are many local ranches that are enrolled in the BMA program and allow hunting. In addition to that, they allow access to public lands that would otherwise be landlocked or damned difficult to access. APR is taking donations, buying up land, and pricing out ranchers who have been on the land since the Bankhead-Jones era. They're going to boil the frog and eventually close off access and hunting. They don't currently allow elk hunting because "there aren't enough elk," yet any dude who has hunted the breaks will tell you there are a shit ton of elk. The state says the area is well over objective, FWIW.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a Sierra Club type organization will do something that doesn't benefit hunting? Which of us is taking crazy pills? :)
So your say private property rites are not a thing because its new and you don't like it?

I'm not saying it may not have further implications to elk hunting. But I also support capitalism and private property rites. That's what America is built on
 

woods89

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
1,272
Location
Southern MO Ozarks
It's not surprising the knee jerk reactionists can't appreciate the nuance here.

APR is going to eventually kill a lifestyle in the Missouri River Breaks. It's essentially a piece by piece hostile take over.

Have any of you been up there? Hunted it? Befriended locals?

There are many local ranches that are enrolled in the BMA program and allow hunting. In addition to that, they allow access to public lands that would otherwise be landlocked or damned difficult to access. APR is taking donations, buying up land, and pricing out ranchers who have been on the land since the Bankhead-Jones era. They're going to boil the frog and eventually close off access and hunting. They don't currently allow elk hunting because "there aren't enough elk," yet any dude who has hunted the breaks will tell you there are a shit ton of elk. The state says the area is well over objective, FWIW.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a Sierra Club type organization will do something that doesn't benefit hunting? Which of us is taking crazy pills? :)
I personally like what the APR is doing, but I can certainly imagine the feelings of those on the other side. If my particular industry was slowly getting squeezed out, I'm sure it would be a pretty prickly subject for me. That said......

I've worked for many small farmers here in MO. Local dairies especially have been dying off for the last 20 years. I wonder if the issue isn't quite a bit greater than the Breaks, and if it's not more of a symptom of ag moving to a much more corporate structure. I personally would much rather my milk comes from a local 50-100 cow dairy, but unfortunately efficiencies of scale make 5000 cow dairies more profitable. I've been on big dairies, and they bother me, so in a way I can see what you are getting at. That shift has been set in motion, however, and there's not much that can be done.

I agree that the future is not set in stone for APR. It's also true that lots of land in MT(and elsewhere) is getting turned into housing. And then you have folks like the Wilks. Ideally it would all be public, but that's not realistic.

There are certainly some difficult transitions taking place in rural America.
 
OP
Gila

Gila

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Apr 25, 2020
Messages
643
Location
Socorro New Mexico
It's not surprising the knee jerk reactionists can't appreciate the nuance here.

APR is going to eventually kill a lifestyle in the Missouri River Breaks. It's essentially a piece by piece hostile take over.

Have any of you been up there? Hunted it? Befriended locals?

There are many local ranches that are enrolled in the BMA program and allow hunting. In addition to that, they allow access to public lands that would otherwise be landlocked or damned difficult to access. APR is taking donations, buying up land, and pricing out ranchers who have been on the land since the Bankhead-Jones era. They're going to boil the frog and eventually close off access and hunting. They don't currently allow elk hunting because "there aren't enough elk," yet any dude who has hunted the breaks will tell you there are a shit ton of elk. The state says the area is well over objective, FWIW.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a Sierra Club type organization will do something that doesn't benefit hunting? Which of us is taking crazy pills? :)
Last I knew AP does allow hunting elk and they are in the block management program. But for how long who knows, with supporters like Defenders of Wildlife. It is up to Montana Sportsmen to improve their block management program, and get additional programs started to find a way to increase the incentives for local ranchers to participate. The ranchers up there are proud of their wildlife. Yes, they like to hunt for themselves and their families. I did the same thing. The grandkids and their friends would come out and have a blast. Now if someone came over and volunteered to jump on the tractor and mow my ditches, I probably would have let them bow hunt in my wooded area. Sometimes it’s all about attitude with ranchin’ folk.

But there are a “group” of Montana sportsmen who think they are entitled to hunt private land and have supported (and even endorsed) AP to send that message to the ranchers. There are very good private land hunting programs in other states. Montana should see how South Dakota runs it’s programs. They have the walk-in areas which is fantastic public hunting on private lands, with unlimited access. The GFP pays the landowner per acre to enroll and most of those areas end up being perpetual. They also have programs very similar to Montana’s block management where there are only so many hunters allowed in a specific area: https://gfp.sd.gov/hunting-areas/

New Mexico does well with public access programs for elk. Not so good for Pronghorn or deer though. E-plus however has been highly successful, especially in Primary Manangement Zones were the state allots unit wide land owner tags. Anyone with a public draw tag can hunt that private property within the GMU: https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/hunting/maps/eplus/
 

MTShane

Newbie
Joined
Nov 10, 2019
Messages
5
Location
Eagle River, AK
It's not surprising the knee jerk reactionists can't appreciate the nuance here.

APR is going to eventually kill a lifestyle in the Missouri River Breaks. It's essentially a piece by piece hostile take over.

Have any of you been up there? Hunted it? Befriended locals?

There are many local ranches that are enrolled in the BMA program and allow hunting. In addition to that, they allow access to public lands that would otherwise be landlocked or damned difficult to access. APR is taking donations, buying up land, and pricing out ranchers who have been on the land since the Bankhead-Jones era. They're going to boil the frog and eventually close off access and hunting. They don't currently allow elk hunting because "there aren't enough elk," yet any dude who has hunted the breaks will tell you there are a shit ton of elk. The state says the area is well over objective, FWIW.

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that a Sierra Club type organization will do something that doesn't benefit hunting? Which of us is taking crazy pills? :)
I’ve been there, hunted it, am friends with locals. They allow elk hunting on most of their land. A lot of the the ranches they purchased didn’t previously allow access. Not sure where you’re getting your information.
 

Dos Perros

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
3,893
Location
Lenexa, KS
I’ve been there, hunted it, am friends with locals. They allow elk hunting on most of their land. A lot of the the ranches they purchased didn’t previously allow access. Not sure where you’re getting your information.

Started going up there in 2008 or thereabouts and still have friends up there. Birds, deer, elk, etc.

I traded emails with Rachel Regan in 2018 about elk hunting APR ground, and she told me as justification for why it wasn't allowed (same as 2017 season) was because there weren't enough. Maybe things have changed since then?
 

beignet

Junior Member
Joined
May 14, 2019
Messages
25
Location
Montaña
He posted the same stuff on Newberg’s site and came over here to try and find a more receptive audience.
I posted almost the exact same comment on the 7th and it seems to have gone missing. The long arm of UPOM? Hahaha
 

wapitibob

Well Known Rokslider
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
4,430
Location
Bend Oregon
Started going up there in 2008 or thereabouts and still have friends up there. Birds, deer, elk, etc.

I traded emails with Rachel Regan in 2018 about elk hunting APR ground, and she told me as justification for why it wasn't allowed (same as 2017 season) was because there weren't enough. Maybe things have changed since then?

I wish state game departments would do that.
 

fngTony

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
3,307
Location
Colorado
Thread didn’t do anything positive or constructive on hunttalk, no need to rehash it here.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top