accuracy troubleshooting help/or new barrel? (tikka, 7mm-08 twist rate, etc ?)

[Macintosh]

So, I've got a tikka hunter (wood stock) 7mm08 that I've had for 5 or 6 years. It's always been "fine", but I've never been very impressed with the accuracy--every so often it'll shoot a 1" group for 3 rounds so I guess it meets their accuracy standard, but I have never once been able to get a 5-round group under about an inch and a quarter, despite trying a zillion different types of ammo, multiple scopes, stock bedded, etc. I consider it a 1.5moa gun on my very best days. Other guns I have I can shoot better consistently. I rarely get to shoot it at game at anything even close to "longer range" so it's always been fine, although it kind of bugs me. In the past it has liked the federal premium 140gr best (ab's I think), and for 5 or 6 years now I've been shooting barnes vortex 120gr ttsx. Accuracy with the ttsx has been acceptable. I had gotten some factory-loaded 140gr Nosler etip ammo to try ahead of an elk hunt a couple years ago and never used them, so I broke those out this spring, and those shot pretty well but it was crazy hard to close the bolt so those went back to nosler who was great about replacing them--although they told me up front it was going to take a long time. So, I ordered a bunch more of the barnes stuff since I really highly prefer mono bullets for reduced meat damage. Unfortunately, I cannot get this new batch of barnes to shoot--seems it's different enough that the gun doesnt like it as well as the previous batch, best I can do is close to 2" at 100 yards, and the couple groups I shot at 200 had a really weird 6" horizontal spread (there was NO wind), vertically they were what I would expect. I'd think it was how I was holding the rifle, but shots were off both left and right of center, and the other ammo I shot out of the same gun did not spread horizontally. The 200 yard groups are the worst groups this gun (or me) has ever shot at that range. Groups are bad enough that I dont think it's ethical to shoot this ammo at game past 150 yards or so. I'm just really surprised, because I've been shooting this exact same ammo, albeit from a different batch, for years with acceptable accuracy.
Wondering if folks have any tips for troubleshooting to make sure I'm not overlooking anything before I give up on this ammo and start looking for some other ammo to use, or finally get fed up with overall mediocre accuracy and put a new barrel on this sucker...I dont reload and pickins are slim these days, so not sure what the best next step is--I'd like to make this gun work for me this fall.


Scope was new to me this winter, it's a S&B klassic 3-12 in talley lw rings. It's been good so far. Bases torqued to 35inlb I think (dont recall, had to hunt for a base torque recommendation) and rings were torqued to 18inlb, both with loctite. So far everything is still tight, zero has not shifted. I am not spinning turrets on this scope.
Action screws are both torqued to 35in lb, which is what I've always used.
Stock is bedded, pillars, barrel is fully floated ahead of the bedding. Nothing has changed here recently.
I tried some other ammo I had with me, which was leftover cheapie stuff just in case I needed to get on paper, etc. It doesn't group well, but was not horizontally stringing the way the barnes was.
Same day, same range I had my 22 I was shooting between shots while barrel cooled, and shot fine, so I don't think it was me on that particular day.

• Any suggestions of what I may be overlooking before I point the finger at the ammo? The horizontal stringing seems really odd and makes me think it could be something other than the ammo, but I don't know what would cause this in one set of ammo and not in another.
• Other ammo suggestions that are available, focused on mono's? I do not reload.
• It may not be realistic for this fall given the timing as I could not find anything in stock anywhere I looked, but a big part of me just wants to be done with this barrel that has never really impressed me, and put a new barrel on it. If so, I'd love to hear suggestions on barrel and who to go to for a good sporter-contour steel barrel.
  • can I put a stainless barrel on a blued-action? (there's no issue with the 2 diff metals, is there?)
  • suggestion for twist rate given that I prefer mono's (would like to be able to shoot 120's but also 140gr)
  • any other considerations?

thanks in advance.

 

[Gorp2007]

Have you had anyone else shoot the rifle? You mention you have other rifles that you can shoot better, but you don't expand on that much. Why not take those other rifles instead of your Tikka?

 

[Macintosh]

Thanks—Ive got other rifles that arent set up for hunting, or for a different type of hunting. Example, I have a tikka in 6.5, but its a 12lb gun set up and scoped for PRS and I really dont want to lug it around hunting or tear it apart. Other examples are in the other direction. I have a perfectly good 30-06 I could use that I can keep inside an inch at 100 yards, It’s not that I can’t bring another rifle it’s that I really wanted to bring this one because on paper this is the rifle thats perfectly suited for this trip, as well as another trip later in the fall. Either way I’m going to get it shooting at some point, so advice still welcomed even if the solution necessitates I use a diff gun this fall.
Have not had anyone else shoot it, and likely wont for a while due to schedules. Unfortunately I’ll have to compare my shooting with other guns, rather than someone else’s shooting with this gun.

 

[BjornF16]

I would try a couple of things...one at a time:

1. Verify action screw torque. Might experiment with varying torque values.

2. Shoot some Hornady Precision Hunter 150 ELD-X. Use Ammoseek.com to find some.

3. Try using Sportsmatch rings that attach to the integral rail on Tikka's.

If those don't fix your accuracy problem, look at re-barreling.

 

[amassi]

If your not dialing and shooting 3 around an inch and shooting monos I'd say accuracy is fine, no need to fuss with it. You've got an moa rifle and load that'll work just fine

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[ResearchinStuff]

• Any suggestions of what I may be overlooking before I point the finger at the ammo? The horizontal stringing seems really odd and makes me think it could be something other than the ammo, but I don't know what would cause this in one set of ammo and not in another.
  • Have you glass or pillar bedded the stock?
  • Is the barrel fully freefloated?
  • Is your sling swivel stud(s) touching the sandbags?
  • Alternatively, it sounds like your barrel has never really been that great. It happens.
• 
  
• It may not be realistic for this fall given the timing as I could not find anything in stock anywhere I looked, but a big part of me just wants to be done with this barrel that has never really impressed me, and put a new barrel on it. If so, I'd love to hear suggestions on barrel and who to go to for a good sporter-contour steel barrel.
  • Barlien, Krieger, brux, lilja, hawk hill
  • 
    
  • can I put a stainless barrel on a blued-action? (there's no issue with the 2 diff metals, is there?)
    • Weatherby puts lots and lots of stainless barrels on blued actions, for example the accumark.
  • 
    
  • any other considerations?
    • Tikka prefits are pretty widely available. bugholes will chamber/shoulder any barrel they carry for a tikka. So will PVA, preferred barrel blanks, proof research.......

 

[BjornF16]

If your not dialing and shooting 3 around an inch and shooting monos I'd say accuracy is fine, no need to fuss with it. You've got an moa rifle and load that'll work just fine

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Maybe I misread his post, but it sounded like his 120 TTSX load went from 1-ish MOA (3 shot) to 2 MOA with more recent lot numbers.

I wouldn't be happy with 2 MOA...but if really 1-ish MOA, then I would agree with amassi

 

[Harvey_NW]

When is the last time the barrel was properly cleaned, like fully stripped of copper and carbon? If the ammo of choice went from 1 MOA to 2 MOA and you've tried "a zillion different types of ammo", she might be a smooth bore.

Lots of prefits available for Tikka but I prefer to have a gunsmith gauge it before I start shooting. I have one with a Bartlein, and one with a Preferred Barrel Blanks, and both shoot incredibly well.

 

[Macintosh]

If your not dialing and shooting 3 around an inch and shooting monos I'd say accuracy is fine, no need to fuss with it. You've got an moa rifle and load that'll work just fine

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Sorry if my initial post was too long--the issue is that the new batch of barnes ammo I got is shooting over 3moa at 200 yards--it is the exact same ammo I had been shooting before with consistent 1.5ish moa results out to 400 yards or so, problem is the new batch is unacceptable out of this gun. I am trying to get feedback on what might be driving the horizontal stringing on this new batch, i.e. is it something with the ammo or is it something else. At 200 yards the groups were about 2" vertically (which I am very happy with for this gun), but the 2 groups were both over 6" horizontally, evenly spread out to both sides of the zero. I checked everything I know of on the gun and all is solid, and I tried other ammo to double-check and got normal results (roundish groups centered on the zero, same size groups that gun normally shoots that other ammo).
Normally I'd just chalk it up to the gun really doesn't like that ammo, but 2 things have me questioning myself and looking for feedback.
1) this gun previously shot this exact same ammo pretty well (but from a different batch of ammo)
2) the groups seemed abnormally strung-out horizontally in a way I cant explain--there was literally zero wind. Also, the 100 yard groups were just under 2moa, while the 200 yard groups were about 3.2moa, and I cant explain why they grew so much in just 100 yards with no wind and no mirage. It makes me think something else is in play.

 

[Macintosh]

When is the last time the barrel was properly cleaned, like fully stripped of copper and carbon? If the ammo of choice went from 1 MOA to 2 MOA and you've tried "a zillion different types of ammo", she might be a smooth bore.

Lots of prefits available for Tikka but I prefer to have a gunsmith gauge it before I start shooting. I have one with a Bartlein, and one with a Preferred Barrel Blanks, and both shoot incredibly well.

I dont clean it too much, but it's definitely not a heavy-use barrel--it's a 7 3/4ish lb hunting rifle and I'm too much of a recoil wimp to shoot it that much. Just guessing, but it's probably got 250 rounds through it, MAYBE 300, but I really dont think it's any more. My brother, my wife and I all bought 7mm-08 rifles within a year of each other, and we all bought a bunch of ammo and split it up to see whose rifle liked what, so that "pile of ammo" was a couple groups of about a dozen different types of ammo, not a high-volume thing. I go fairly easy on the copper solvents and just try to keep powder fouling cleaned after shooting it, and give it a more thorough cleaning about 1x per season. My other tikka probably has 1500 or 2000 rounds through it with the same cleaning regimen and I have never seen accuracy drop or a sudden change in dope, so I can't see it's a barrel-wear issue? You think it could be a copper issue?

 

[Macintosh]

• Any suggestions of what I may be overlooking before I point the finger at the ammo? The horizontal stringing seems really odd and makes me think it could be something other than the ammo, but I don't know what would cause this in one set of ammo and not in another.
  • Have you glass or pillar bedded the stock?
  • Is the barrel fully freefloated?
  • Is your sling swivel stud(s) touching the sandbags?
  • Alternatively, it sounds like your barrel has never really been that great. It happens.

action is pillared and bedded
barrel sits in the bedding for about 3/8" or 1/2", and then is full free floated and has plenty of space around it.
no, studs are not contacting anything--all groups (both problem groups and my comparisons) are from a bench using a bipod and rear bag.
Confirmed, the barrel has never been great. It's been acceptable, nothing more. I'd just like to return to my acceptable mediocrity!

 

[BjornF16]

action is pillared and bedded
barrel sits in the bedding for about 3/8" or 1/2", and then is full free floated and has plenty of space around it.
no, studs are not contacting anything--all groups (both problem groups and my comparisons) are from a bench using a bipod and rear bag.
Confirmed, the barrel has never been great. It's been acceptable, nothing more. I'd just like to return to my acceptable mediocrity!

I might ditch the bipod and try a sandbag up front...maybe remove the sling studs for testing

 

[Harvey_NW]

You think it could be a copper issue?

I think it's possible. There is no set rule with copper fouling, from what I've read and what Frank Green from Bartlein barrels has to say, certain barrels just foul quicker and more drastically than others. A good cleaning and torque check is always the cheapest course of action to start with. If that doesn't show anything it might be worth having the crown inspected or re cut. Otherwise, a new SS prefit in sporter contour is about $450 and will probably shoot anything you feed it sub MOA. Preferred Barrels will actually do factory Tikka contour so you won't have to carve anything out of your stock or channel either.

 

[Macintosh]

Copy that, thanks very much guys.

I've got a front rest, but it doesn't improve my accuracy by a full minute at 200 yards even on my worst day--I will try, but I really think it's fair to say that while that may be "A" problem, it's not "THE" problem.

Action was already verified it was at 35 in lb, it had not loosened. Scope as well, I didnt re-test the bases but the rings loctite was sealed and index mark had not moved. I'll give it a turbo copper cleaning and bring some other ammo with me next time I shoot it.

In the meantime, barrel shopping...good thing I'm fabulously wealthy (eye roll). If anyone has any thoughts on twist rate with mono bullets in mind Im all listening.

 

[amassi]

Copy that, thanks very much guys.

I've got a front rest, but it doesn't improve my accuracy by a full minute at 200 yards even on my worst day--I will try, but I really think it's fair to say that while that may be "A" problem, it's not "THE" problem.

Action was already verified it was at 35 in lb, it had not loosened. Scope as well, I didnt re-test the bases but the rings loctite was sealed and index mark had not moved. I'll give it a turbo copper cleaning and bring some other ammo with me next time I shoot it.

In the meantime, barrel shopping...good thing I'm fabulously wealthy (eye roll). If anyone has any thoughts on twist rate with mono bullets in mind Im all listening.

Jaoutdoors.com sells tikka take off barrels at a fair price.
With a tikka 7-08 your likely stuck with >140 grain monos.
139 hornady cx
120 &140 barnes ttsx
139 barnes lrx if you could find them

As stated above, sometimes barnes bullets shoot best through a clean barrel

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[Thinkingman]

When is the last time the barrel was properly cleaned, like fully stripped of copper and carbon? If the ammo of choice went from 1 MOA to 2 MOA and you've tried "a zillion different types of ammo", she might be a smooth bore.

Lots of prefits available for Tikka but I prefer to have a gunsmith gauge it before I start shooting. I have one with a Bartlein, and one with a Preferred Barrel Blanks, and both shoot incredibly well.

Copper fouling is my first guess.
I'd strip it down to steel, stick with one bullet type, and see if it shoots in.
Horizontal stringing is curious, though.

 

[Jimbee]

I have a Tikka 270. I've played with some different loads/bullets. It typically will shoot anything around 2 inches or less for a 10 shot group. I recently loaded a few Barnes 129LRX mostly to check for pressure before I loaded a bunch. I shot 3 and walked 100 yds to the target to find a 4+ inch 3 shot group. It had about 400 rounds through it and hadn't been cleaned. After hearing claims that sometimes Barnes bullets don't like a dirty barrel, I cleaned it and it went back to normal sized groups. I don't want to have to start cleaning my barrel so I decided to try another bullet.

 

[Jimbee]

I also get horizontal stringing occasionally, haven't figured out why, yet.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

in my experience, barnes do not like to be shot if any non-barnes copper is in the barrel. On one of my guns it will double the group size. So, if you've been mixing bullets doing a copper scrub is probably a good use of time.

 

[Macintosh]

definitely been mixing bullets. Guess I'll scrub the snot out of the copper and start with a bare barrel...sigh, I probably needed the exercise. Will report back, may be a week or two till I can get to the range again.

Jimbee, assuming those are 1" squares, I'd have been tickled pink with that group. Spread that group out another 5", evenly spread out to both sides of the vertical center, and you'll get a picture of the groups I saw at 200 yards.

I was honestly kind of hoping I needed a new barrel. There's still hope!