7 mag - Elk

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wirehead

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This...

Plus...
If you have a legitimate 1/2" M70 - why the hell go changing that?!? Crazy talk 😉
lol "crazy talk" is why we are all here, isn't it?!

They why's I would rebarrel:
- Shorter barrel from current 26" to 24" (could be done by cutting down barrel)
- Thread for and add muzzle brake - (same as above)
- Faster twist to stabilize heavier bullets more well purposed for elk, e.g. 168gr LRX or 175gr Elite Hunter (could roll with a 160 AB or 145 LRX)
- Bump up to 300 win mag... yadda yadda yadda
 
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wirehead

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Yes, please do that. I have a couple m70's that I love and want to play around with.
Had a near-nightmare experience on my mid-Nov mule deer hunt. Temps in the single digits and we went to check zero on our rifles. My 3/4 MOA rifle became a 2 MOA rifle and POI shifted almost 4 inches at 200 yards with cold bore and 2nd shot no where close to repeatable. I’m grateful a buddy let me shoot his proof researched-barreled custom rifle that faired much better in the cold.

Time to rebarrel / build this M70.

the caliber choice… I’ve narrowed it down to 300 WM, 7 mm PRC, or 300 PRC and am open to be convinced of other, better options.

Like the 300 WM for ammo and component availability but want to run heavy/long bullets and don’t think the WM is well optimized for such. Yea, I could have it throated but that’s a 300 PRC, for the most part.

Really would go with 300 PRC but I’m concerned my M70 7 mm rem mag magazine would. It support the OAL for the 212s and on up I’d like to shoot.

And this brings me to the 7mm PRC… hmmm I like it. Had wanted to go 30 cal but man what’s not to like about a 175 going 3k and I have no OAL issues. Plus… I can seemingly run a 22” barrel without as much penalty as I would with the 300 WM…

Thoughts welcome!

Up next is the great barrel debate and a good stock…
 
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Formidilosus

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Had a near-nightmare experience on my mid-Nov mule deer hunt. Temps in the single digits and we went to check zero on our rifles. My 3/4 MOA rifle became a 2 MOA rifle and POI shifted almost 4 inches at 200 yards with cold bore and 2nd shot no where close to repeatable. I’m grateful a buddy let me shoot his proof researched-barreled custom rifle that faired much better in the cold.

Time to rebarrel / build this M70.

You positive it was the rifle?
 

mt100gr.

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Had a near-nightmare experience on my mid-Nov mule deer hunt. Temps in the single digits and we went to check zero on our rifles. My 3/4 MOA rifle became a 2 MOA rifle and POI shifted almost 4 inches at 200 yards with cold bore and 2nd shot no where close to repeatable. I’m grateful a buddy let me shoot his proof researched-barreled custom rifle that faired much better in the cold.

Time to rebarrel / build this M70.

the caliber choice… I’ve narrowed it down to 300 WM, 7 mm PRC, or 300 PRC and am open to be convinced of other, better options.

Like the 300 WM for ammo and component availability but want to run heavy/long bullets and don’t think the WM is well optimized for such. Yea, I could have it throated but that’s a 300 PRC, for the most part.

Really would go with 300 PRC but I’m concerned my M70 7 mm rem mag magazine would. It support the OAL for the 212s and on up I’d like to shoot.

And this brings me to the 7mm PRC… hmmm I like it. Had wanted to go 30 cal but man what’s not to like about a 175 going 3k and I have no OAL issues. Plus… I can seemingly run a 22” barrel without as much penalty as I would with the 300 WM…

Thoughts welcome!

Up next is the great barrel debate and a good stock…
Sounds like time to re-scope your rifle, to me....
 
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wirehead

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You positive it was the rifle?
Well… there are four possibilities. Rifle, load, scope, and shooter.…

Shooter - all shots felt good and I’ve not jerked as much as the shots spread spread indicate in a long time.

Scope - Leupold 4.5-14x40 VX3i… have never seen any issues with this scope. Could cold weather have caused something weird? Maybe… but I did not see a mechanical situation (eg extreme dissimilar materials) that would’ve caused the behavior I saw.

Load - maybe… In my various testing of different charge weights, I had not see such a drastic change in POI. Velo was also for lower for temp than IMR 4350 should have generated. With a below max load of IMR 4350 with 162 ELD-Xs and the data I’ve collected, thus far, I was surprised by what I saw.

Rifle - I don’t know that the rifle was the sole contributor, its likely a convolved situation, but based on prior experience with the rifle, I feel it was partially, largely the cause. Also, rifle weight, barrel twist rate, blued finish, moderate accuracy all lead me to want a custom build. This cold weather situation was really just the final nudge needed to start a build.
 
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MHWASH

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It sounds to me like you want to re barrel, which is fine, no need to justify. You could also consider re barreling to a fast twist 7 RM. I'd be hesitant to go with the new 7 PRC just because of the possible lack of brass availability.
I'd also try another scope if you have one. I had the same scope take a shit on me.
 

dieselchessy

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A vx5 isn’t an upgrade from a vx3. That’s a lateral move, and not a good one in my opinion.

Maybe look at a Nightforce, you can get demo models for a decent price.

I don’t care for the ABLR either. Not for inside 500. Those bullets are really soft and expensive. You could get lathe turned solid coppers for that price.
But maybe you like that grenade like performance. If so the 168 ABLR would probably be a better match for your rifle. Or you could try the 162 ELD-X, cheaper bullet and tends to shoot and kill well.

I’ve killed a few elk with 7mm rem mag. It does the job well.
 

Unckebob

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Well… there are four possibilities. Rifle, load, scope, and shooter.…

Shooter - all shots felt good and I’ve not jerked as much as the shots spread spread indicate in a long time.

Scope - Leupold 4.5-14x40 VX3i… have never seen any issues with this scope. Could cold weather have caused something weird? Maybe… but I did not see a mechanical situation (eg extreme dissimilar materials) that would’ve caused the behavior I saw.

Load - maybe… In my various testing of different charge weights, I had not see such a drastic change in POI. Velo was also for lower for temp than IMR 4350 should have generated. With a below max load of IMR 4350 with 162 ELD-Xs and the data I’ve collected, thus far, I was surprised by what I saw.

Rifle - I don’t know that the rifle was the sole contributor, its likely a convolved situation, but based on prior experience with the rifle, I feel it was partially, largely the cause. Also, rifle weight, barrel twist rate, blued finish, moderate accuracy all lead me to want a custom build. This cold weather situation was really just the final nudge needed to start a build.

Get it re-barreled if you want, but I doubt the barrel caused the issues you described on the hunt. Btw - in addition to cartridge length, I would make sure the fatter cartridges will feed from you magazine (unless you change the stock as well).

Stock - if you have a wood stock on your M70 (like I have on my Featherweight), it might have expanded/contracted in that really cold (humid/wet?) weather causing the problem you described.

Powder: switch to a more temperature stable powder than IMR 4350?
 
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wirehead

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All really good thoughts I greatly appreciate.

A scope upgrade is part of the plan and had originally thought vx5, NF SHV and maybe NXS, and a few others… reckon I’ll strike VX5 off the list.

Any qualms out there over the SHV series? Have historically not wanted 1st FP but with the SHV reticle, I’m less concerned about the reticle getting too small for function at lower power and shorter distances not requiring compensation.

I do definitely have the option to cut / thread the barrel and cerakote barreled action - have considered that. I think what I have is an honest 1 MOA gun that shoots up to 160 non-mono bullets. I felt with that effort it would be worth a KrIeger or Brux fluted barrel upgrade. Also, I do not like the 1:9.5 twist rate and would prefer faster so to shoot more efficient bullets - this just makes sense (to me).
 
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wirehead

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Get it re-barreled if you want, but I doubt the barrel caused the issues you described on the hunt. Btw - in addition to cartridge length, I would make sure the fatter cartridges will feed from you magazine (unless you change the stock as well).

Stock - if you have a wood stock on your M70 (like I have on my Featherweight), it might have expanded/contracted in that really cold (humid/wet?) weather causing the problem you described.

Powder: switch to a more temperature stable powder than IMR 4350?

thanks for the thoughts!

I had free floated / glass bedded the stock but this def could’ve been the issue. It’s a syn stock… and its non-symmetric and will thus contract at cold temp asymmetrically possibly applying pressure to barrel. Very plausible. Thanks for the thoughts!

I believe IMR 4350 is in the upper 1/3rd of temp stability… I have H4831 in my shop and on my list try - its near top of temp stability. Now with the pressure of hunt prep off my plate, I think I will give it a try.
 

Fishermen0105

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I have an shv 3-10 on my NULA 284. It’s worked well and I have great confidence in it. I may upgrade that scope to an nxs 2.5-10 one day but it’s been solid. The Swfa 3-15 (24oz) is still on sale as well and was still in stock and would be a cheaper reliable option.
 

dieselchessy

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I actually have the SHV 4-14x50 f1 on my 7 rem mag. It’s OK.
I much prefer the ATACR 4-16, or the NSX compact 2.5-10.
I run the Mil-R reticle in my stuff.

Compared to the NSX and ATACR the SHV has a visually smaller field of view and the optics aren’t as sharp and clear edge to edge. Also the scope is long, like 15” long.
It looks/fits ok on a long action, but I wouldn’t consider it for a short action.
I’ve had no issues with it tracking the last few years, sample of 1.
 

Maverick1

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Folks,

This debate is old, tired… but still interesting... maybe (at least, to me).

Here I stand with choices: double down on a really solid Win M70 7 mag (9.5” twist - 24” barrel) or build a 300 win mag, maybe 338 WM. I want (we need!) more than substantial killing ethics up to elk size big game to 500 yds. For a 7 mag that’s something like asking if 2175 fps and 1830 ft-lbs for a 175 gr bullet at 500 yds is very ethical (that’s 2850 fps muzzle for a 175 ABLR). I reload so this type of long / heavy elk load is less a problem. I’m all for more guns but would rather take that 300 WM $ and upgrade optics, spotting scope, HUNT, etc.

I’ve read a ton of other posts/topics on this - still not settled.

Thoughts?
Thoughts? Everyone that replies to this thread is wasting their time. If you’ve “read a ton of other posts/topics on this” - then you’d know that the 7 mag is sufficient out to the distances you indicated. Just as @Formidilosus said! Seems like you have already made up your mind and are going to buy/build a new rifle. With the recent “near-nightmare experience” as the final justification. Stop with the analysis paralysis and just get on with it.
 
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wirehead

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Thoughts? Everyone that replies to this thread is wasting their time. If you’ve “read a ton of other posts/topics on this” - then you’d know that the 7 mag is sufficient out to the distances you indicated. Just as @Formidilosus said! Seems like you have already made up your mind and are going to buy/build a new rifle. With the recent “near-nightmare experience” as the final justification. Stop with the analysis paralysis and just get on with it.

what fun is that?
 

rootacres

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Buying new guns is cool. If that's what you want to do, many of us will help you with that. With that said, Ive watched 6 bulls fall on my last 2 elk hunts. Of those 6, 4 of them were taken with 300 WM, the other 2 were taken with my 7 SAUM. The 300 WMs were shooting Bergers and TTSX, mine were both with Bergers. A moderate velocity 7 with the right projectile is plenty for elk. Neither of mine made it more than a few steps. Shot distances average around 300 yds. I stick to the 2000+ FPS impact velocity and 1500 ft/lbs of energy. Save your cash on a new rifle and upgrade your optics, rings, stock etc.
 
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wirehead

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Buying new guns is cool. If that's what you want to do, many of us will help you with that. With that said, Ive watched 6 bulls fall on my last 2 elk hunts. Of those 6, 4 of them were taken with 300 WM, the other 2 were taken with my 7 SAUM. The 300 WMs were shooting Bergers and TTSX, mine were both with Bergers. A moderate velocity 7 with the right projectile is plenty for elk. Neither of mine made it more than a few steps. Shot distances average around 300 yds. I stick to the 2000+ FPS impact velocity and 1500 ft/lbs of energy. Save your cash on a new rifle and upgrade your optics, rings, stock etc.
Mmm compelling...
 

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