6.5 creed vs 6.5 prc for anything from white tail to moose?

[Reece123]

I’ve been down a fairly long road (feels like it anyways) trying to decide on a new “back country rifle”. I’ve decided on a Seekins ph3. Now my only question is, 6.5 creed or 6.5 prc? A little back ground, I’m a reloader and really don’t have any interest in buying any factory ammo that isn’t 9mm or 223s for mag dumping purposes. The cost between the 2 seem to be about $0.15-$0.20 more for the prc in extra powder. Not really a huge deal for me when looking at probably less than 200 shots a year. I also plan on putting a suppressor on either one. I want this gun for anything from white tail to moose (realistically probably elk and bear being my biggest animals) and to replace my current unbraked, unsuppressed 270 win. My biggest concerns are as follows

1. Barrel life. While I’ll probably be at around 200 rounds per year, and the extra 20 cents per round isn’t a big deal, the $500+ replacement barrel from Seekins is if I’m replacing it every few years. What’s the average barrel life guys are seeing out of each cartridge?
2. Recoil. I’m used to a 270 with nothing on the end of it. I don’t have a flinch from it but I certainly can’t spot my shots. 6.5 creed isn’t too bad with a bare muzzle, and I figure pretty light suppressed. How’s the 6.5 prc stack up?
3. Resale. To me everything is for sale and everything has a price, unless it’s inherited. Has anyone had either one of these cartridges for sale and had a bunch of people say “man if it was a 6.5 creed instead of prc id buy it” or vise versa? I like to always know “if I need to I can get rid of this quickly”

Thanks for any help.

 

[fmyth]

Thread '6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....'

Dec 17, 2021

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit not nearly as many as I should have, from a couple deer. I'll try to briefly describe the ones I don't have pics of.

If you have experiences, good or bad, post them up. Of course, pics are great, and add a lot of valuable information. Maybe it will take off, maybe it won't, but if it does it...

• woods89
• Replies: 2,049
• Forum: Firearms

• 

 

[Reece123]

Thread '6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....'

Dec 17, 2021

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit not nearly as many as I should have, from a couple deer. I'll try to briefly describe the ones I don't have pics of.

If you have experiences, good or bad, post them up. Of course, pics are great, and add a lot of valuable information. Maybe it will take off, maybe it won't, but if it does it...

• woods89
• Replies: 2,049
• Forum: Firearms

• 

For whatever reason this is very hard for me to wrap my head around. But also I’m not really looking for “will creed work” as much as I’m looking for “is prc worth the extra recoil and reduced barrel life”

 

[JMundy84]

It would depend on the max range you want to be able to kill an animal with the barrel length you're getting. If a creed keeps you above 1800 fps at the maximum range you want to shoot get the creed.

 

[fmyth]

For whatever reason this is very hard for me to wrap my head around. But also I’m not really looking for “will creed work” as much as I’m looking for “is prc worth the extra recoil and reduced barrel life”

In my opinion the 6.5PRC gives you an additional 200ish yards of effective range over the 6.5C. I'm now using 6.5C exclusively for big game and have killed a half dozen or so mule deer and elk out to 400 yards. My max range with 143ELDX out of my 18" 6.5C is 600 yards on big game but I've never needed to shoot that far. I don't need the extra 200 yards a 6.5PRC would give me and don't want the extra recoil, more expensive ammo and shorter barrel life that comes with it.

 

[Reece123]

It would depend on the max range you want to be able to kill an animal with the barrel length you're getting. If a creed keeps you above 1800 fps at the maximum range you want to shoot get the creed.

From what I can calculate it’s good for 1800fps with a 140gr projectile until 500 yards. I would say this would probably be past my maximum, if not my max because that’s as far as my local range goes. However the energy drops down to 1000ft/lb at that distance. Everything I’ve read says stay above 1400ft/lb for elk? Is this correct?

 

[JMundy84]

Velocity is what makes a bullet work not energy.

 

[Reece123]

Velocity is what makes a bullet work not energy.

Yes, but it looks like all things the same at 500 yards there’s about a 300fps difference in creed and prc. My question is, is that worth it?

 

[JMundy84]

Imo no a creed will be easier to shoot and spot your shots

 

[ckt3]

Yes, but it looks like all things the same at 500 yards there’s about a 300fps difference in creed and prc. My question is, is that worth it?

If you’ve already satisfied the minimum effective velocity requirement at your maximum ethical range, then additional velocity isn’t worth it for added recoil.

That is if you choose the follow the heuristic of:
Pick a bullet, find the minimum velocity needed for that bullet to work properly, define your personal maximum ethical range you’d take a shot at a game animal, choose the lowest recoiling cartridge that achieves minimum effective velocity at maximum ethical range.

 

[43.6N]

Congrats on your decision. I’ve got both. Ones a tikka. The other is a Seekins. I’ll do my best to share what I think is important with regard to your specific questions.

First, what kind of experience are you bringing to the table? Former competitor? Lifelong hunter? New to the game?

What kind of bullet are you considering? Where will you do most of your hunting? California compliant monos need to be pushed faster than TMKs. That question alone may lead you to pick one vs the other.

Barrel life.

Have you ever shot out a barrel? In my opinion this would be very low on reasons to pick one vs the other. Chances are you’ll break something before burning out either barrel.

I also plan on putting a suppressor on either one.

My Creedmoor suppresses “nicer” than the PRC. Meaning the difference in blast and recoil is larger for the creed. Both get better with a can. The creed just gets more better. This has been true for 3 different cans so far with these rifles. The creed also doesn’t get mirage as bad as the PRC.

Recoil. I’m used to a 270 with nothing on the end of it.

The 6.5prc is functionally the same as the 270. 140-150gr bullets with 55-60gr of powder.
Recoil will be indistinguishable between the two.

Most people can spot shots with the creed with a bit of training. Fewer can do it consistently with the PRC.

looks like all things the same at 500 yards there’s about a 300fps difference in creed and prc. My question is, is that worth it?

Consider yourself and your shooting history.
Have you shot an animal at 500yds?
Have you failed to recover that animal due to poor terminal performance? Not poor shot placement, not rifle hiccups, but strictly poor bullet terminal performance?

If yes, what kind of bullet and at what kind of velocity?

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the Creedmoor at 500+ yds.

The secret here is putting the right bullet into an animal at the right velocity. Once that happens, more velocity and more bullet mass does not necessarily give any extra “margin” like one might assume.

Extra mass and velocity does lead to more recoil. Suppressors help, but there is going to be a difference. There will be situations where a shooter will not be able to keep eyes on the animal through the scope under recoil. Meaning that during one of the most dynamic moments of hunting, you are risking more complications by choosing to not be able to spot your shot as well with the larger cartridge.

More shooting does make you a better shooter.
And between the two rifles, I like shooting the creedmoor much much more.


All that to say, 6.5cm would be my vote. But don’t be surprised if after shooting it, you start to think it might actually be overkill. 6cm ends up looking really good when you realize it is just as fast as the PRC but with even less recoil than the 6.5cm.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Reece123]

Congrats on your decision. I’ve got both. Ones a tikka. The other is a Seekins. I’ll do my best to share what I think is important with regard to your specific questions.

First, what kind of experience are you bringing to the table? Former competitor? Lifelong hunter? New to the game?

What kind of bullet are you considering? Where will you do most of your hunting? California compliant monos need to be pushed faster than TMKs. That question alone may lead you to pick one vs the other.


Have you ever shot out a barrel? In my opinion this would be very low on reasons to pick one vs the other. Chances are you’ll break something before burning out either barrel.

My Creedmoor suppresses “nicer” than the PRC. Meaning the difference in blast and recoil is larger for the creed. Both get better with a can. The creed just gets more better. This has been true for 3 different cans so far with these rifles. The creed also doesn’t get mirage as bad as the PRC.

The 6.5prc is functionally the same as the 270. 140-150gr bullets with 55-60gr of powder.
Recoil will be indistinguishable between the two.

Most people can spot shots with the creed with a bit of training. Fewer can do it consistently with the PRC.

Consider yourself and your shooting history.
Have you shot an animal at 500yds?
Have you failed to recover that animal due to poor terminal performance? Not poor shot placement, not rifle hiccups, but strictly poor bullet terminal performance?

If yes, what kind of bullet and at what kind of velocity?

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the Creedmoor at 500+ yds.

The secret here is putting the right bullet into an animal at the right velocity. Once that happens, more velocity and more bullet mass does not necessarily give any extra “margin” like one might assume.

Extra mass and velocity does lead to more recoil. Suppressors help, but there is going to be a difference. There will be situations where a shooter will not be able to keep eyes on the animal through the scope under recoil. Meaning that during one of the most dynamic moments of hunting, you are risking more complications by choosing to not be able to spot your shot as well with the larger cartridge.

More shooting does make you a better shooter.
And between the two rifles, I like shooting the creedmoor much much more.


All that to say, 6.5cm would be my vote. But don’t be surprised if after shooting it, you start to think it might actually be overkill. 6cm ends up looking really good when you realize it is just as fast as the PRC but with even less recoil than the 6.5cm.

Good luck with your decision.

Thank you. This is some great information!
As far as your questions go,

I’ve been hunting for about 20 years, but solely a “stand” hunter at about 100-200 yards. White tails and pigs for the most part.

I’m in Texas, and most hunting would be in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Colorado. I’m looking at nosler accubonds.

I have never shot out a barrel. But I also have a bit of a collection (read as hoarder) of guns that I rotate around. Nothing that I would say I use all the time that becomes an extension of my arm sort of deal. I’m unsure if these barrels last 2k rounds or 20k rounds.

I’ve never shot at an animal at 500 yards, so I’ve never had an issues associated with it….yet.

 

[Reece123]

Congrats on your decision. I’ve got both. Ones a tikka. The other is a Seekins. I’ll do my best to share what I think is important with regard to your specific questions.

First, what kind of experience are you bringing to the table? Former competitor? Lifelong hunter? New to the game?

What kind of bullet are you considering? Where will you do most of your hunting? California compliant monos need to be pushed faster than TMKs. That question alone may lead you to pick one vs the other.


Have you ever shot out a barrel? In my opinion this would be very low on reasons to pick one vs the other. Chances are you’ll break something before burning out either barrel.

My Creedmoor suppresses “nicer” than the PRC. Meaning the difference in blast and recoil is larger for the creed. Both get better with a can. The creed just gets more better. This has been true for 3 different cans so far with these rifles. The creed also doesn’t get mirage as bad as the PRC.

The 6.5prc is functionally the same as the 270. 140-150gr bullets with 55-60gr of powder.
Recoil will be indistinguishable between the two.

Most people can spot shots with the creed with a bit of training. Fewer can do it consistently with the PRC.

Consider yourself and your shooting history.
Have you shot an animal at 500yds?
Have you failed to recover that animal due to poor terminal performance? Not poor shot placement, not rifle hiccups, but strictly poor bullet terminal performance?

If yes, what kind of bullet and at what kind of velocity?

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the Creedmoor at 500+ yds.

The secret here is putting the right bullet into an animal at the right velocity. Once that happens, more velocity and more bullet mass does not necessarily give any extra “margin” like one might assume.

Extra mass and velocity does lead to more recoil. Suppressors help, but there is going to be a difference. There will be situations where a shooter will not be able to keep eyes on the animal through the scope under recoil. Meaning that during one of the most dynamic moments of hunting, you are risking more complications by choosing to not be able to spot your shot as well with the larger cartridge.

More shooting does make you a better shooter.
And between the two rifles, I like shooting the creedmoor much much more.


All that to say, 6.5cm would be my vote. But don’t be surprised if after shooting it, you start to think it might actually be overkill. 6cm ends up looking really good when you realize it is just as fast as the PRC but with even less recoil than the 6.5cm.

Good luck with your decision.

Also to add….whats the details on the Seekins and the tikka and which do you prefer

 

[mt100gr.]

Being a hand loader, I'd say creedmoor every time. You can get some great performance from that case.

I have a 18" 6.5 creedmoor and a 18" 6.5 saum and the saum hardly leaves the safe. My creedmoor barrel is FAST. Certainly nipping at the heels of a saum/prc, but even if it was 200fps slower, its so much nicer to shoot.

Which barrel length are you considering?

 

[Reece123]

Being a hand loader, I'd say creedmoor every time. You can get some great performance from that case.

I have a 18" 6.5 creedmoor and a 18" 6.5 saum and the saum hardly leaves the safe. My creedmoor barrel is FAST. Certainly nipping at the heels of a saum/prc, but even if it was 200fps slower, its so much nicer to shoot.

Which barrel length are you considering?

Since I’m wanting to go suppressed I’m going with a 20”. The 24” Seekins with a can seems like it would feel like carrying around a 10’ extension ladder

 

[mt100gr.]

Since I’m wanting to go suppressed I’m going with a 20”. The 24” Seekins with a can seems like it would feel like carrying around a 10’ extension ladder

Agreed, and good choice. The shorter the better with a suppressor.

 

[43.6N]

Also to add….whats the details on the Seekins and the tikka and which do you prefer

Seekins: 6.5prc. Havak Bravo, purchased 2019?
-started life with 24” MTU contour and brake. I put a leupold on it at first, until the leupy broke. Then it got a NF nx8.
-came from the factory with a KRG bravo. Which made it incredibly easy to shoot.
-I’ve since cut it down to 20” and my reloads with 147’s and 153’s are in the 2825fps range.
- I’d estimate 1500 rounds on it. Still puts all the bullets in the same hole. But hasn’t been shot since last spring. Because it’s heavy, and I just don’t need that much horsepower for the shots I’m taking.

Tikka stainless T3x. 6.5cm. Cut down the factory barrel to 18”. Lives in a Rokstok. NF atacr. I reload 130 TMK and eldm at 2750fps. Just as accurate as the Seekins, weighs 5lbs less. And kills mule deer, elk, and bear well past where I can make good shots. I am the limiting factor, not the rig or my reloads.

 

[43.6N]

But I also have a bit of a collection (read as hoarder) of guns that I rotate around. Nothing that I would say I use all the time that becomes an extension of my arm sort of deal. I’m unsure if these barrels last 2k rounds or 20k rounds.

Nothing wrong with collecting.

The Creedmoor will get great accuracy out to 4000+ rounds.

I just retired a 6.5cm proof stainless barrel at 5500 rounds. 10 shot groups slowly opened up to 2” over the last 800 shots or so. Still making hits, but just getting a little tired.

I would encourage you to TRY to burn out your barrel. Try like hell to make it an extension of you. Make Seekins warranty that barrel next year. It will teach you more about shooting and equipment than any forum or article!

 

[mtnbound]

Thank you. This is some great information!
As far as your questions go,

I’ve been hunting for about 20 years, but solely a “stand” hunter at about 100-200 yards. White tails and pigs for the most part.

I’m in Texas, and most hunting would be in Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Colorado. I’m looking at nosler accubonds.

I have never shot out a barrel. But I also have a bit of a collection (read as hoarder) of guns that I rotate around. Nothing that I would say I use all the time that becomes an extension of my arm sort of deal. I’m unsure if these barrels last 2k rounds or 20k rounds.

I’ve never shot at an animal at 500 yards, so I’ve never had an issues associated with it….yet.

The CM barrel will probably outlast you unless you start shooting a lot. PRC barrel life will be less, but honestly, most people who are concerned about shooting a barrel out aren't shooting enough to make that happen. So, quit worrying about it and start shooting.

 

[Mw01313]

I made the decision about a month ago to step down in cartridge size from a 300 WM. My personal max range on game has never been past 600 yds and anything that far would have to be under perfect conditions that most likely wont happen in the field.I decided on a seekins as well and initially thought I would go with a 6.5 PRC. Since my shop was waiting on one I started reading up on loading for the PRC. I was already debating between the PRC and CM, but waiting gave me a chance compare the 2.
After reading about the PRC chamber issues with reloads ("clickers"), I decided to really compare the two side by side. I had to estimate reduction in velocities due to barrel length from load data, but I should be pretty close. I used the 140 eldm and 147 eldm in the CM and the 147 in the PRC. Long story short, I found what has already been stated above. PRC got me to 850yds while both bullets on the CM got me to 600yds at sea level (I live at like 100 ft.) PRC was obviously less wind and elevation correction. When I adjusted elevation to 9,000 ft the CM held velocity for much further.
I decided a CM would do everything I need. I already own one so that should simplify things. Also, the chance (unsure how likely though) that i end up needing a Smith and reamer to correct chamber dimensions really sealed the deal for me. I am making this switch to simplify things. I need to shoot more and tinker less. Guess my idea is not to extend range, but make everything 600 and in a more routine shot.
Just $.02 from a guy that just finished the same mental exercise OP is currently doing.