338 vs 375 for Alaskan brown bear?

[Arken7mm]

I'm in the market for a new rifle for Alaskan brown bear and moose, for hunting but also for incase of stopping a charge. I've narrowed it down to the 338 vs the 375 RUM. Unless, you convince me the 416 Rem is superior.

For 375, I'd like a little extra so going with the 375 RUM.

Which specific 338? 338 win mag, 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua? Are there any 338's that outperform the 375 RUM, is my question?

270gr to 300gr ammo preferably. 350gr?

I keep reading conflicting posts about the 338 vs 375 in terms of velocity, energy on target and penetration. Some claim the 338 has better sectional density which leads to better penetration over the 375.

I'd like to see if I can either find the rifle on the market or have one built that is a lightweight mountain rifle for long hikes, 6.5lb, 20" to 22" inch barrel suppressed.

If you could build your own Alaskan rifle, what direction would you go?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Might be able to find a Ruger Alaskan in 338wm.

I’ve personally never been a huge fan of the 338, not for any reason other than it’s just not my thing. I’ve also seen far less ammo and reloading supplies for it over the past few years, in fact, most of the guys I know who used the 338 have moved away from it. A few years back I had a bag of brand new 338WM brass, not even anything special, just Winchester. I sold it for quite a bit to somebody on the 24HCF forums, waaay more than it was worth but that’s what the shortage brought on.

I’ve hunted a lot with the 375 but the HH not the ultra mag stuff so I can’t comment on that. If I was setting up a 375 today, I’d probably get a Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger and install one of those Alaskan arms +1 bottom metals and mount a trijicon accupoint 1-4 in quick release rings. I have a few 375HH rifles but have used them much less since I got into silencers.

 

[Yellowknife]

I’ve also seen far less ammo and reloading supplies for it over the past few years, in fact, most of the guys I know who used the 338 have moved away from it.

FYI, the shortage of .338 WM is (at least temporarily) over. I’ve been able to access a decent selection of factory at semi reasonable prices since last fall and have a good stock of brass and bullets as well.

To the OP…. A light .375 or .338 isn’t really a good answer to anything. And yeah I’ve done that. Had a 6.5 lb H&H for a while. It broke mounts and scopes, and was stupid to shoot. If you are concerned about a bear charge for some reason, then worry about shooter skill and reliability more than anything IMO. Lots of rounds down range IS the answer.

Current .338 WM is about 9 lbs scoped and suppressed. Works good. Sectional density isn’t really a significant consideration compared to bullet type anymore. I’ve caught a 250 gr accubond inside of a blacktail (and another in a brown bear) just because it mushrooms so wide.

 

[Arken7mm]

FYI, the shortage of .338 WM is (at least temporarily) over. I’ve been able to access a decent selection of factory at semi reasonable prices since last fall and have a good stock of brass and bullets as well.

To the OP…. A light .375 or .338 isn’t really a good answer to anything. And yeah I’ve done that. Had a 6.5 lb H&H for a while. It broke mounts and scopes, and was stupid to shoot. If you are concerned about a bear charge for some reason, then worry about shooter skill and reliability more than anything IMO. Lots of rounds down range IS the answer.

Current .338 WM is about 9 lbs scoped and suppressed. Works good. Sectional density isn’t really a significant consideration compared to bullet type anymore. I’ve caught a 250 gr accubond inside of a blacktail (and another in a brown bear) just because it mushrooms so wide.

@ 1:25 in the video below, he has a 6lb 338 RUM in a Fierce Reaper chassis that looks like pretty tame...

 

[Yellowknife]

That’s because with that scope, suppressor, and bipod, it’s well over [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]]]lbs all up.

Also, that’s client gun. I assumed we were talking about regular Alaskan hunting, so my bad. If you are looking at guided hunts, well…. I have limited comments or advice. Different kind of shooting there.

 

[Arken7mm]

FYI, the shortage of .338 WM is (at least temporarily) over. I’ve been able to access a decent selection of factory at semi reasonable prices since last fall and have a good stock of brass and bullets as well.

To the OP…. A light .375 or .338 isn’t really a good answer to anything. And yeah I’ve done that. Had a 6.5 lb H&H for a while. It broke mounts and scopes, and was stupid to shoot. If you are concerned about a bear charge for some reason, then worry about shooter skill and reliability more than anything IMO. Lots of rounds down range IS the answer.

Current .338 WM is about 9 lbs scoped and suppressed. Works good. Sectional density isn’t really a significant consideration compared to bullet type anymore. I’ve caught a 250 gr accubond inside of a blacktail (and another in a brown bear) just because it mushrooms so wide.

How does the Accubond compare to the Barnes TSX/TTSX and others on brown bear, meaning, which stops the bear quicker, less tracking?

 

[wyosteve]

Either one of your choices will work fine. My first grizzly was with .338 250 Partition. One and done! Next 2 brown bears were with .375 H&H, 300 gr. TBBC, also one and done's! Doing your part on hitting vitals is most important.

 

[Yellowknife]

I don’t think anyone (or certainly not me) has sufficient sample size to judge TSX vs AB on large bears. Practice field positions and make it count. A money shot with cheap soft point .308 Win beats edge of the lungs with a RUM every time.

If you are still interested or concerned with the “charging” thing, then work on double taps and Mozambique drills against a timer at 10 yds. I’ve done a lot of that with 12 ga slugs for work and it’s good fun. We get large format bear targets here in AK for that purpose, but a standard paper silhouette target will work just as well.

Or just let the guide deal with those issues. That’s his job.

 

[AntelopeEater]

I really like my Ruger M77 Hawkeye Guide Gun, in .375 Ruger.

Very accurate, surprisingly comfortable shoot with the factory installed brake and recoil pad, light and compact enough to carry ok while hiking.

I got it for about $1,200 on sale, Bass Pro has 10% off on Mondays is you order with your Bass Pro credit card.

 

[TaperPin]

If you had a regular weight 338 RUM and shot it well, it would be easier to say a light weight RUM of any kind would be doable. All shooters from 243 on up should incrementally increase their recoil level. Most folks can’t shoot a RUM accurately, and even fewer could shoot a light weight one. We shouldn’t compare ourselves to average shooters, but as a practical matter we all have limits.

A standard weight 375 H&H or 340 Wby recoil about the same. When salmon fishing I liked carrying the H&H, but for long shots the Wby is better on many levels. Going up in recoil to bigger cartridges you gain the exact same performance at a little longer distance. No more no less.

 

[Snowwolfe]

For a dedicated Brown bear rifle I can not imagine a better choice than the Ruger Guide rifle in 375 Ruger. It has it all, power, reliable trigger in sub freezing conditions, controlled round feed, short, and the adjustable stock makes more sense than most people think. You do not want to be crawling around the brush and alders wearing a thick coat carrying a rifle with your normal length of pull. You want something a little shorter so it is easier to handle and faster to get into position. The rifle is so ugly it is appealing. I own the left hand version in 375 Ruger
Sight in the factory iron sights then purchase set of quality QD rings as well as the floor plate that holds a extra round from Alaska Arms and you have one serious weapon.
If you want to punish the bear and yourself a little more then buy the 416 Ruger version.
A 6.5 pound 375? You can't be serious. I once owned a 375 H&H that weighed around 7.5 and it was brutal and the muzzle rise made fast follow up shots almost impossible until I had a brake added.

 

[ldmay375]

I'm in the market for a new rifle for Alaskan brown bear and moose, for hunting but also for incase of stopping a charge. I've narrowed it down to the 338 vs the 375 RUM. Unless, you convince me the 416 Rem is superior.

For 375, I'd like a little extra so going with the 375 RUM.

Which specific 338? 338 win mag, 338 RUM, 338 Edge, 338 Lapua? Are there any 338's that outperform the 375 RUM, is my question?

270gr to 300gr ammo preferably. 350gr?

I keep reading conflicting posts about the 338 vs 375 in terms of velocity, energy on target and penetration. Some claim the 338 has better sectional density which leads to better penetration over the 375.

I'd like to see if I can either find the rifle on the market or have one built that is a lightweight mountain rifle for long hikes, 6.5lb, 20" to 22" inch barrel suppressed.

If you could build your own Alaskan rifle, what direction would you go?

I am not a long range shooter nor bear hunter. I mostly use stainless 20", 375 & 416 Rugers for moose. Aftermarket stocks, trigger jobs or replacements, straight tubed variables on my most used rifles. Ballistics wise I consider both easy 250 yard setups. Which is about 50 yards farther than I will realistically even see a portion of a moose where I hunt.

Though as I buddy of mine said similar, after shooting a grizzly, that 338 Winchester flat kills stuff. Certainly works well on moose also.

In my opinion, with the loads / distances that I shoot, I do think the 416 gives a bit more visual impact reaction. Whether that actually equates to killing a second or two faster, I cannot say. I have used the .338 225 TSX, .375 270 TSX, and the .416 350 TSX and TTSX. Given a choice for a close range big bear encounter, I would choose my 416. I am admittedly prejudiced, I really like the rifle and the cartridge.

The 375 RUM is definitely a lot of cartridge and performance. Previous years, I really wanted one. Occasionally still do. But, the shorter barrel moderate performance 375's are a better fit for me.

I still think the 338 Winchester is hard to beat. I am not sure if I have my "ideal" one for all occasions yet.

Lots of variables can come into play in regards to caliber / bullet penetration comparisons. Bullets of equal design and construction, I don't expect significant differences in penetration with similar shots. The .375 270 grain TSX has not lacked penetration in my limited use.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

For me, it depends on vegetation and the likely shooting distance. 338 bullets are better suited for up to long distance, 375’s are best suited for shorter range.

 

[North River]

For a dedicated Brown bear rifle I can not imagine a better choice than the Ruger Guide rifle in 375 Ruger. It has it all, power, reliable trigger in sub freezing conditions, controlled round feed, short, and the adjustable stock makes more sense than most people think. You do not want to be crawling around the brush and alders wearing a thick coat carrying a rifle with your normal length of pull. You want something a little shorter so it is easier to handle and faster to get into position. The rifle is so ugly it is appealing. I own the left hand version in 375 Ruger
Sight in the factory iron sights then purchase set of quality QD rings as well as the floor plate that holds a extra round from Alaska Arms and you have one serious weapon.
If you want to punish the bear and yourself a little more then buy the 416 Ruger version.
A 6.5 pound 375? You can't be serious. I once owned a 375 H&H that weighed around 7.5 and it was brutal and the muzzle rise made fast follow up shots almost impossible until I had a brake added.

While your 30-06, 270, or 6.5 whatever is a perfectly adequate bear hunting rifle, this is The Way for a dedicated large bear rifle. A reliable, rugged, 375 has been the knowledgeable big bear hunters’ choice for 100 years because it just works all the time.

The 250GMX by Hornady and the 270TSX loaded by Buffalo Bore will make a big hole all the way through a bear from any angle which is a great benefit if you hunt them long enough.

 

[Arken7mm]

I am not a long range shooter nor bear hunter. I mostly use stainless 20", 375 & 416 Rugers for moose. Aftermarket stocks, trigger jobs or replacements, straight tubed variables on my most used rifles. Ballistics wise I consider both easy 250 yard setups. Which is about 50 yards farther than I will realistically even see a portion of a moose where I hunt.

Though as I buddy of mine said similar, after shooting a grizzly, that 338 Winchester flat kills stuff. Certainly works well on moose also.

In my opinion, with the loads / distances that I shoot, I do think the 416 gives a bit more visual impact reaction. Whether that actually equates to killing a second or two faster, I cannot say. I have used the .338 225 TSX, .375 270 TSX, and the .416 350 TSX and TTSX. Given a choice for a close range big bear encounter, I would choose my 416. I am admittedly prejudiced, I really like the rifle and the cartridge.

The 375 RUM is definitely a lot of cartridge and performance. Previous years, I really wanted one. Occasionally still do. But, the shorter barrel moderate performance 375's are a better fit for me.

I still think the 338 Winchester is hard to beat. I am not sure if I have my "ideal" one for all occasions yet.

Lots of variables can come into play in regards to caliber / bullet penetration comparisons. Bullets of equal design and construction, I don't expect significant differences in penetration with similar shots. The .375 270 grain TSX has not lacked penetration in my limited use.

Specifically, on 375 RUM vs 416, which do you think would be a better hunting and stopping cartridge against large Alaskan brown bear? I've been trying to find ballistic charts between the two cartridges from roughly around 30 yards to 400 yards on velocity, energy and trajectory...

I'd like a lightweight mountain rifle setup but, I am concerned about recoil. "Recoil" is subjective. I just don't want to the whole 458 Lott type of recoil.

 

[z987k]

Specifically, on 375 RUM vs 416, which do you think would be a better hunting and stopping cartridge against large Alaskan brown bear? I've been trying to find ballistic charts between the two cartridges from roughly around 30 yards to 400 yards on velocity, energy and trajectory...

I'd like a lightweight mountain rifle setup but, I am concerned about recoil. "Recoil" is subjective. I just don't want to the whole 458 Lott type of recoil.

JBM - Calculations - Trajectory

jbmballistics.com

ShootersCalculator.com | Recoil Calculator

An online calculator that calculates the recoil energy, impulse, and velocity of a firearm according to the firearm's weight, powder charge, bullet weight, and bullet muzzle velocity.

shooterscalculator.com

 

[ldmay375]

Specifically, on 375 RUM vs 416, which do you think would be a better hunting and stopping cartridge against large Alaskan brown bear? I've been trying to find ballistic charts between the two cartridges from roughly around 30 yards to 400 yards on velocity, energy and trajectory...

I'd like a lightweight mountain rifle setup but, I am concerned about recoil. "Recoil" is subjective. I just don't want to the whole 458 Lott type of recoil.

I don't think there would be a difference of end result with same shot placement, using bullets of similar performance level at close range. Though I would still choose my 416 Ruger, call it based on emotions / likes. Given my non-statically value observations, I believe the .416 provides a bit more reaction to impact. As probably the .458 users would say when comparing to the .416. But, the 375 H&H with suitable bullets seems to be a consistent performer on stopping big bears. Anything over 200 yards for brown bear does not enter my thoughts.

The area that I moose hunt, a shot over 230 yards is not happening for me. If I am lucky enough to spot moose portions at 200 yards, through small openings while at an elevate position, having the time to determine legality and get a clear shot becomes the obstacles. Ground level if the grass is still standing and leaves on, 75 yards is long range.

I use copper monolithic bullets, 270 grain in my 375 Ruger and 350 grain in the 416 Ruger. The 375 RUM definitely moves bullets faster. I think it is an impressive. Recoil wise, I have never shot one. 458 Lott, I have shot a bit on the range. I like the 350 & 400 grain copper bullets. Trajectory wise with the 404 Hammer is about the same as my 416 Ruger 350 TTSX load. I prefer hunting with the 416. Bottom line the 20" 416 Ruger is one of my favorite cartridges and rifles. The 3.4" actions may not have a practical measurable operational advantage over a 3.6", but I certainly don't see a disadvantage.

The bullet diameter, weight, and speed discussions are interesting at times. I am of the opinion the larger diameters at respectable velocity (another can of worms), give a bit more visual reaction at impact. Whether that translates to stopping / killing quicker is an endless debate. Being a firearms and bullet enthusiast, I debate with myself frequently.