308 and IMR4895

[peterk123]

Seeing if anyone is reloading 308 with this powder. I played around with reloading the 308 a couple years ago and then all the silliness hit. Well, I'm back at load development and am looking for a bit of guidance. My gun was very happy at 41.5grains with a 168 grain bullet. Looking at the Hodgdon site, this puts me at the lower end of the loading range (in my reloading books it is near the upper). I chrono'd this in the past and I was in the 2425fps range. I hunted with Nosler brand ammo this fall. It comes out of the muzzle at 2800 fps. Do you think my load is sufficient for elk out to 300 yards, or should I be testing more powerful loads, trying to get to the nosler velocities? Thanks. Pete

 

[35WhelenAI]

What bullet? "168 grain" could be from any number of manufacturers. If the muzzle velocity provides retained velocity at 300 yards to expand the bullet consistently/reliably what's not to like, IMO.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

2,400 fps will be fine out to 300. 200 or 250 yard zero. 168gr at that speed will carry 1,000 ftlbs of energy out to about 500yds with a 0.38 BC bullet.

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Editing…168gr at 2,400 will only be 776 ftlbs at 500yds. I had left the velocity at 2700 for the calculation initially. Velocity at 500 would only be 1,442. I use 1,000 ftlbs as a reference point to not drop below, but I prioritize the minimum velocity above that. With 2,400 fps mv, it would still be 1,783 at 300. I used 0.38 BC because most hunting bullets are over that, so just being conservative. So with a long range bullet that opens at lower velocities, 168 ABLR or TTSX, I do think the load would be fine out to 300yds. I still don’t know what bullet the OP is loading either though.

 

[N2TRKYS]

It may well very be a fine killing machine. But as a reloader, that velocity would be hard for me to tolerate.

My 165 grain Accubond is traveling 2750 fps out of a 20” barrel.

 

[Gargoyle]

Ain't gonna hurt nothing going 43gr IMR 4895 and 168gr.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Agree with the above post. Plenty of data shows heavier charge weights so no problem there either, IMO.

Imma going nuts if energy comes up again. Means nothing! More is not a bad thing, but we need to get away from it in a legitimate discussion using modern knowledge of ballistic performance. Energy sold guns when hunters didn't know better, we know better.

A bullet with a .380 BC is going about 1400 fps at 500 yds at sea level, 1650 fps at 8000 feet. At 8000 feet it doesn't make it past 395 yds with 1800 fps. If it won't open, it's not going to be a humane killer.

 

[Lone Hunter 1]

I would buy or borrow a chronograph to verify my velocity. I’ve found Nosler and other manufacturers fudges a lot on their velocity. It’s like using a ballistic app. Garbage in Garbage out. This way you know what your velocity is and can put in good info. IMR 4895 is a good powder in the .308. I use H4895 in my rifles and really like it performance. It seems hit and miss on finding it too. You could step up the powder charge slowly looking for pressure . I have used IMR 4895 in a 30/06 and was very pleased with it. Go up slowly with your load looking for pressure. Probably will find there is a higher node that shoots just as good or better.

 

[A382DWDZQ]

Agree with the above post. Plenty of data shows heavier charge weights so no problem there either, IMO.

Imma going nuts if energy comes up again. Means nothing! More is not a bad thing, but we need to get away from it in a legitimate discussion using modern knowledge of ballistic performance. Energy sold guns when hunters didn't know better, we know better.

A bullet with a .380 BC is going about 1400 fps at 500 yds at sea level, 1650 fps at 8000 feet. At 8000 feet it doesn't make it past 395 yds with 1800 fps. If it won't open, it's not going to be a humane killer.

I accidentally put 2700 into the ballistic calculator for my estimate above. So you are correct, it would be too slow at 500, assuming the bullet in question is an accubond.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I accidentally put 2700 into the ballistic calculator for my estimate above. So you are correct, it would be too slow at 500, assuming the bullet in question is an accubond.

Gotcha, thanks for clarifying on that .

 

[Gargoyle]

Agree with the above post. Plenty of data shows heavier charge weights so no problem there either, IMO.

Imma going nuts if energy comes up again. Means nothing! More is not a bad thing, but we need to get away from it in a legitimate discussion using modern knowledge of ballistic performance. Energy sold guns when hunters didn't know better, we know better.

A bullet with a .380 BC is going about 1400 fps at 500 yds at sea level, 1650 fps at 8000 feet. At 8000 feet it doesn't make it past 395 yds with 1800 fps. If it won't open, it's not going to be a humane killer.

An object the size of a grain of sand moving at the speed of light can explode planet earth upon impact.

A subject getting hit by a million ton train at 10mph is launched and dies.

 

[35WhelenAI]

GS, what is the main take away I am looking for in the post above with respect to bullets entering living tissue and destroying it?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

It may well very be a fine killing machine. But as a reloader, that velocity would be hard for me to tolerate.

My 165 grain Accubond is traveling 2750 fps out of a 20” barrel.

I agree, I can pretty easily get just under 2800fps with my 18” 308, no reason to launch them in the 24xx range.

 

[Gargoyle]

GS, what is the main take away I am looking for in the post above with respect to bullets entering living tissue and destroying it?

There appears to be two methods of killing force: Light & fast, heavy & slow.

Why do they have elephant guns of 500 nitro express, brown bear suggested guns of 45-70, 12ga slug?

 

[35WhelenAI]

There appears to be two methods of killing force: Light & fast, heavy & slow.

Why do they have elephant guns of 500 nitro express, brown bear suggested guns of 45-70, 12ga slug?

Ok, gotcha on the methods.

Consistent ability for a bullet to reach and make holes in vital tissue make bigger bores desirable especially when the animal will bite. IMO, that is more momentum than energy. And said conserved momentum allows to break down structure and reach the vitals on the inside from many shot angles.