.25 Cal (Quarter Bore) / Big Game Success - 25 Creed, 25-284, 25-06, 25 PRC, 25 SAUM

sndmn11

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Can you please say more about this? I've already been told that "truing", especially on a Tikka, is completely unnecessary. However, hand lapping sounded like a good way to remove any micrscopic tooling marks to reduce fouling. For $65 in the grand scheme of things, it sounded like a bargain.

The barrels shoot well beyond what is needed for hunting; not just PBB but most of these makers that have been brought up. (Assuming) You are not going to put this barrel on a match gun for the purpose of trying to be in the top 99 shooters in the world. (Assuming again) YOU are not going to go out and put 10 shots at or under 1MOA with ease and be disappointed that the number isn't .9MOA. (Assuming the last time) All of the people on this site would see the best benefit to their shooting skill spending $65 on the powder/primers/bullets to make up 300 cartridges than on polishing a bore. The bargain in the grand scheme of things is that you will likely not have to try a bunch of bullets ino load development because everything will shoot better than what you likely (assumed again!) are used to.

To me it would be like throwing cerakote on my bow's riser.
 

jjohnsonElknewbie

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The barrels shoot well beyond what is needed for hunting; not just PBB but most of these makers that have been brought up. (Assuming) You are not going to put this barrel on a match gun for the purpose of trying to be in the top 99 shooters in the world. (Assuming again) YOU are not going to go out and put 10 shots at or under 1MOA with ease and be disappointed that the number isn't .9MOA. (Assuming the last time) All of the people on this site would see the best benefit to their shooting skill spending $65 on the powder/primers/bullets to make up 300 cartridges than on polishing a bore. The bargain in the grand scheme of things is that you will likely not have to try a bunch of bullets ino load development because everything will shoot better than what you likely (assumed again!) are used to.

To me it would be like throwing cerakote on my bow's riser.
Your assumptions are correct. My focus on lapping wasn't accuracy so much as it was reduced barrel maintenance and improved longevity. For example, I can shoot 25 of the same slugs out of my rifled Hastings and Mossberg barrels, and the latter accumulates double or triple the fouling than the former. I'd always assumed this was due to more precise machining and better finish.

That all being said, Form and others don't break in or clean some of their barrels at all, and after 10,000+ rounds they're more accurate than most, so I can probably just save the $65 after all. ;)
 

Forestryguy

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What are the plus and minuses of a .25 vs 6.5? They are so close in diameter, is there much difference?
 
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What are the plus and minuses of a .25 vs 6.5? They are so close in diameter, is there much difference?

I believe with the new heavier bullets (high BC) the 25 caliber class of cartridges will have a renaissance and maybe even a bit of rebirth with new commercial cartridges (I could forsee the 25 Creed and 25 PRC achieving some level of commercial success)

But, to more accurately answer your question...I do not see any meaningful difference in real world applications...particularly when it comes to hunting.
 

jjohnsonElknewbie

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At common hunting distances, animals won’t know the difference with good shot placement. However, on paper there are significant recoil and ballistics differences depending on the .25 or 6.5 cartridge being used.

For example 6.5 PRC factory loads generate more recoil than a 6.5 CM which recoils more than a .25-06.

For handloaders, the long, sleek, high BC, heavy .25 caliber bullets can be pushed significantly faster and flatter than a 6.5 CM and with very mild recoil.

Taking a page from the 6mm/.243 guys’ handbook, speed kills. So if a guy wants a blistering fast round that will smoke most big game at common hunting distance, you can fire factory .25-06 rounds in the 85-110 grain range at speeds easily exceeding 3,000fps. For example, the .25-06 Hornady 110 grain ELD-X runs 3,140. The Federal 100 grain Nosler BT runs 3,220.
 
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willfrye027

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What are the plus and minuses of a .25 vs 6.5? They are so close in diameter, is there much difference?
Less recoil without giving up high BC. The 135gr bullet has BC between the 143eldx and 147eldm, but can be pushed faster as well. In the creedmoor case its an extra 150-200 yards of effective killing distance and less recoil to do it.

My gun is a touch over 10 pounds and I shoot it unbraked, easily spot impacts, and have killed out to 670 with plenty of terminal velocity still on the table.
 

Formidilosus

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Less recoil without giving up high BC. The 135gr bullet has BC between the 143eldx and 147eldm, but can be pushed faster as well. In the creedmoor case its an extra 150-200 yards of effective killing distance and less recoil to do it.

At like pressures, the 130’ish grain .25’s are going to get the same MV as the 140’ish grain 6.5’s. There is no magic. They will have slightly less recoil. The reason people are getting such high MV’s with the 25’s is because they are loading them just below, or at pressure signs which in most cases is quite a bit above 65k PSI.
For instance, from 24in barrels, I have several buddies loading 6.5cm’s with the same loading techniques and have MV’s with 140 and 143gr bullets at almost 2,900fps.
 

willfrye027

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At like pressures, the 130’ish grain .25’s are going to get the same MV as the 140’ish grain 6.5’s. There is no magic. They will have slightly less recoil. The reason people are getting such high MV’s with the 25’s is because they are loading them just below, or at pressure signs which in most cases is quite a bit above 65k PSI.
For instance, from 24in barrels, I have several buddies loading 6.5cm’s with the same loading techniques and have MV’s with 140 and 143gr bullets at almost 2,900fps.
I believe it…can’t say it’s a dramatically better option, or even a better option for everyone, but it makes sense to me and I shoot it well. Plus have the components to shoot out a few barrels and do shoot a lot which is probably why it’s working so well for me 👍🏻
 

Formidilosus

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I believe it…can’t say it’s a dramatically better option, or even a better option for everyone, but it makes sense to me and I shoot it well. Plus have the components to shoot out a few barrels and do shoot a lot which is probably why it’s working so well for me 👍🏻

Oh yeah, I’m just saying that the difference is MV isn’t as much as a lot are saying. They’re is a large difference in MV and recoil between the 6.5’s and 6mm’s, but they’re all good.
 

Forestryguy

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Thanks for the info. I am just window shopping for now, on what I will eventually build or buy in the future after I am done with school. I have a friend that is a .257 Roberts fan, and speaks highly of the cartridge. I am open to reload in the future, but the somewhat more factory availability of 6.5s is a factor.
 

Fishermen0105

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Thanks for the info. I am just window shopping for now, on what I will eventually build or buy in the future after I am done with school. I have a friend that is a .257 Roberts fan, and speaks highly of the cartridge. I am open to reload in the future, but the somewhat more factory availability of 6.5s is a factor.
I really like the 257 roberts probably because that’s what I hunted with as a kid and still have one. If I were starting from scratch with a big game rifle the easy choice would be 6mm or 6.5 creedmoor because of the quality of ammunition, brass, and bullets. I got into the 6.5 creedmoor two years ago and it’s super easy to find a good shooting load with little effort.
 

BigNate

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Thanks for the info. I am just window shopping for now, on what I will eventually build or buy in the future after I am done with school. I have a friend that is a .257 Roberts fan, and speaks highly of the cartridge. I am open to reload in the future, but the somewhat more factory availability of 6.5s is a factor.
I am a huge fan of the Roberts as well and can say it is an absolute gem on game from 300 yards in. It works on elk with the right bullet choice, and is fantastic for deer on down.

If you're wanting one gun to do it all I'd skip the Creedmoor cartridges even. My choice for everything would hinge on the largest animal you want to hunt. A bigger bullet on smaller stuff isn't as bad as the other way around.
Keep in mind, the closer shots on game can be done with almost anything with a proper bullet choice. As the animal size goes up or distance increases heavier higher sd/bc bullets perform better.
 

Formidilosus

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If you're wanting one gun to do it all I'd skip the Creedmoor cartridges even. My choice for everything would hinge on the largest animal you want to hunt. A bigger bullet on smaller stuff isn't as bad as the other way around.


How many elk or bigger animals have you killed and with what cartridges and bullets? What were the reactions of the animals, distance traveled after the hit, and approximately how much time from hit to drop was it?



Keep in mind, the closer shots on game can be done with almost anything with a proper bullet choice. As the animal size goes up or distance increases heavier higher sd/bc bullets perform better.

What is “higher sd/bc bullets” mean to you? And how does SD play into terminal ballistics?
 

Forestryguy

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I am a huge fan of the Roberts as well and can say it is an absolute gem on game from 300 yards in. It works on elk with the right bullet choice, and is fantastic for deer on down.

If you're wanting one gun to do it all I'd skip the Creedmoor cartridges even. My choice for everything would hinge on the largest animal you want to hunt. A bigger bullet on smaller stuff isn't as bad as the other way around.
Keep in mind, the closer shots on game can be done with almost anything with a proper bullet choice. As the animal size goes up or distance increases heavier higher sd/bc bullets perform better.
In all reality, I am more than likely going to pick up a .308 for an all around rifle. Everything else will be because I want it for fun or as a specialty. Here in WI 308 will be adequate for any game and I could use it out West also.
 

2Stamp

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I don't know how many animals I have on my 25-06, but here are a few (shots from 100yd out to 450yd). Bullets used have ranged from 100gr TSX, 110 ELDX, and 115 BT; the 100gr Barnes being my favorite. If I could shoot the heavier BC bullets I'd try it. But for me, and the distances I shoot, I'm not sure they'd really be worth it.
 

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