.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[Formidilosus]

Is that small hole at top left an exit? Looks like the bullet impacted at quite a steep angle.

Arrow is pointing to entrance, line is the path, and square is exit.

 

[LimeSpoon]

Arrow is pointing to entrance, line is the path, and square is exit.
View attachment 475131

Ah, I see that now. At first I had thought the exit wound was the small perforation? spot of coagulated blood? a couple ribs below the actual exit as it looked roughly the size of an expanded 77 gr TMK bullet.

Impressed to see that the actual exit is significantly larger. This seems to evidence that the bullet retained considerable velocity by the time it reached the offside despite traveling through the entire body cavity at what I can only assume is a near 60 degree angle!

 

[ObiWanKannoli]

For anyone looking for factory loads, I just grabbed 200 of these:

Stand 1 Armory RCP 223 77gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) - Stand 1 Armory

Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr Sierra TMK 77g Sierra Tipped Match King (long-range precision): These polymer tipped 77g Sierra TMK bullets buck the wind very well and produce extremely consistent results at distances out to one mile. These are the best long-range 223 bullets on the market, and are...

stand1armory.com

Ran great in my LMT:



Stand 1 told me "these are loaded pretty hot and we are getting 2700 fps in a 14.5" gas gun." Looking forward to giving them a go on game.

 

[jermck]

For anyone looking for factory loads, I just grabbed 200 of these:

Stand 1 Armory RCP 223 77gr Sierra Tipped Match King (TMK) - Stand 1 Armory

Stand 1 Armory 223 77gr Sierra TMK 77g Sierra Tipped Match King (long-range precision): These polymer tipped 77g Sierra TMK bullets buck the wind very well and produce extremely consistent results at distances out to one mile. These are the best long-range 223 bullets on the market, and are...

stand1armory.com

Ran great in my LMT:

View attachment 475295

Stand 1 told me "these are loaded pretty hot and we are getting 2700 fps in a 14.5" gas gun." Looking forward to giving them a go on game.

Out of stock

 

[Mark.c]

Hey thanks for the reply!

I can tell you from my standpoint, I was squarely where you are. I’ve been on rokslide awhile now and have developed some friends, western based guys. When I look at the level of man years of the identifiable advocates on this thread we’re talking a very lot of man-years of western hunting experience. Also have other friends here who took this plunge, and aren’t planning to use their magnums any time soon - me included. At least at the range limits noted here.

With utmost respect to your years of western hunting experience it’s much less than the combined years of the original advocates and many many others who embarked on this information and have made kills.

If you personally haven’t used a tmk in this caliber or witnessed a kill personally how can you summarily dismiss based on your years of western hunting minus this data point?

 

[bliner]

Not a TMK, but I’ll add one more experience with the Federal Fusion 62 grain that has also been discussed. A few weeks ago my son shot a good size whitetail at 180 yards when it was facing directly at him with a 16” AR. Hit him center chest and he took off and ran about 150 yards up a hill and into a field before going down. There was almost nothing left of either lung and there was no exit, never found the bullet. My experience with 223 on big game is very limited as I’ve always used larger cartridges because I was worried the 223 was marginal for deer, but that’s the only gun I’ve got that my 11 year old can shoot well. I was more confident in it after reading a lot of the posts here, and it worked perfectly.

 

[Forestryguy]

Even with a week off, I don't think I have enough time to get a 115 pages of info read. So I'll just ask. What has been the decided range for the heavier bullets on most of the game animals that have been discussed? Thanks.

 

[Lawnboi]

Even with a week off, I don't think I have enough time to get a 115 pages of info read. So I'll just ask. What has been the decided range for the heavier bullets on most of the game animals that have been discussed? Thanks.

Wherever they end up below 1800-2000 fps

 

[Rooggvc]

 

[Mark.c]

Hey thanks for the reply!

I can tell you from my standpoint, I was squarely where you are. I’ve been on rokslide awhile now and have developed some friends, western based guys. When I look at the level of man years of the identifiable advocates on this thread we’re talking a very lot of man-years of western hunting experience. Also have other friends here who took this plunge, and aren’t planning to use their magnums any time soon - me included. At least at the range limits noted here.

With utmost respect to your years of western hunting experience it’s much less than the combined years of the original advocates and many many others who embarked on this information and have made kills.

If you personally haven’t used a tmk in this caliber or witnessed a kill personally how can you summarily dismiss based on your years of western hunting minus this data point?

The post is “.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose”. As I stated earlier, if it’s legal in your state go for it. Even with the 77 gr TMK, it will fall below 1000 ft/lbs of energy around 160 yards. For small deer at close range (less than 200 yds) its probably fine. For large deer I feel it’s marginal, especially at range. For bear, elk or moose its probably unethical. Magnum cartridges are unnecessary however I feel we owe the animal a quick clean dispatch with a cartridge best matched for the quarry. I realize this is an unpopular position on this thread, however I respectfully disagree. After 30 years of military experience with 5.56 cartridge, I have doubts on its suitability for big game.

 

[bbell]

There is a 115 pages of not just grip and grin photos but actual autopsies showing tissue damage and what an appropriate .224 bullet does to an animal.
Doesn’t really matter if we feel a 5.56 is big enough, it has been proven to be more than sufficient on large game.

 

[Antares]

The post is “.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose”. As I stated earlier, if it’s legal in your state go for it. Even with the 77 gr TMK, it will fall below 1000 ft/lbs of energy around 160 yards. For small deer at close range (less than 200 yds) its probably fine. For large deer I feel it’s marginal, especially at range. For bear, elk or moose its probably unethical. Magnum cartridges are unnecessary however I feel we owe the animal a quick clean dispatch with a cartridge best matched for the quarry. I realize this is an unpopular position on this thread, however I respectfully disagree. After 30 years of military experience with 5.56 cartridge, I have doubts on its suitability for big game.

You are correct that your post represents an “unpopular position,” but not for the reason you think. Your position is unpopular because it’s just a bunch of feelings. This thread isn’t about feelings.

 

[KHntr]

All due respect, doesn’t your experience actually state “30 years of military experience would indicate that FMJ’s aren’t a good choice for hunting”?

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I hope this isn't too much of a tangent for this thread, but I have a curiosity. There's so much .223 knowledge and experience in this thread, that I suspect someone knows. Let's dismiss the "why?"

What would you expect a subsonic .223 55 grain soft point to do on a deer head shot at 50 yards and a deer vitals shot at 50 yards? Would it expand? Would expansion be beneficial or a detriment to lethality in either case? How deeply would it penetrate?

Do any of you have experience with subsonic .223 on deer? Either factory or handload.

If you were to undertake the task of developing a subsonic load for a .223 for 50 yard max shots on deer, using a rifle with a 9 twist, how would you go about it?

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I hope this isn't too much of a tangent for this thread, but I have a curiosity. There's so much .223 knowledge and experience in this thread, that I suspect someone knows. Let's dismiss the "why?"

What would you expect a subsonic .223 55 grain soft point to do on a deer head shot at 50 yards and a deer vitals shot at 50 yards? Would it expand? Would expansion be beneficial or a detriment to lethality in either case? How deeply would it penetrate?

Do any of you have experience with subsonic .223 on deer? Either factory or handload.

If you were to undertake the task of developing a subsonic load for a .223 for 50 yard max shots on deer, using a rifle with a 9 twist, how would you go about it?

I'll preface this by stating all of this is a SWAG.

I wouldn't expect a generic 55gr soft point to expand at all at subsonic velocities. I would limit my shots to head shots only. Expansion would be beneficial similar to pistol bullet expansion, .224 is a small hole. I would expect full penetration on deer vitals, seeing as no expansion with a hard core bullet is not being upset in the tissue.

No experience here with any subsonic killing even though I've sat out several times with 300blk and subs.

If I was going to do it, I would either cast soft lead projectiles and powder coat them or use Maker Bullets subsonic .224 bullets. Unfortunately Maker says their 55gr subsonic bullet needs a 1:8 twist.

 

[Formidilosus]

I hope this isn't too much of a tangent for this thread, but I have a curiosity. There's so much .223 knowledge and experience in this thread, that I suspect someone knows. Let's dismiss the "why?"

What would you expect a subsonic .223 55 grain soft point to do on a deer head shot at 50 yards and a deer vitals shot at 50 yards? Would it expand? Would expansion be beneficial or a detriment to lethality in either case? How deeply would it penetrate?

No, they will not expand. They will penetrate 18-20” minimum, and tumble between 8-12” deep with little to no deformation. Chest shots will generally exit with a long incapacitation time- this should be a head shot only proposition.

 

[Lawnboi]

I don’t at all understand the hard on guys get for subsonic rifle cartridges. Maybe someone can explain.

A subsonic 22 cal, isn’t that basically a 22lr

 

[Formidilosus]

I don’t at all understand the hard on guys get for subsonic rifle cartridges. Maybe someone can explain.

A subsonic 22 cal, isn’t that basically a 22lr

Yes. But a subsonic 30cal isn’t much better with most bullets either.

 

[Formidilosus]

I want different bullets for each rifle to prevent mixing loads so that eliminates the 77 tmk and 73 eldm.

Why not just shoot the same ammo?

 

[grappling_hook]

Fellas I appreciate all the info from this. I have some 77 tmks for my 20” 223 wylde and some 73 Eldms for my ruger predator.

I now have a new project of a 16” AR with red dot. I want it to be a do all round within 100 yards. Everything from deer to hogs to home defense.

I want different bullets for each rifle to prevent mixing loads so that eliminates the 77 tmk and 73 eldm.

What bullet would you chose besides the 77 tmk and 73 eldm? My shop has Hornady 60 SP but afraid my 1/7 twist will be too fast.

I did a thread search here but everything came back to the 77 and 73.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you mind sharing which handguard is on that rifle?